Follow up on Philadelphia story
Reference: "Unprecedented abuse of power silences Christian message"
Click here to watch the video of the actual incident involving the arrest of a group of Christians for singing and preaching on a Philly sidewalk during a homosexual event. A prosecutor for the city "referred to Scripture verses they read as 'fighting words.'"
Click here to watch the video of the actual incident involving the arrest of a group of Christians for singing and preaching on a Philly sidewalk during a homosexual event. A prosecutor for the city "referred to Scripture verses they read as 'fighting words.'"
Labels: David C. Price
posted by DAVID C. PRICE at 1/06/2005 04:33:00 PM
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4 Comments:
Thanks for the link to the video. Some questions: who shot the video? How was it obtained? Did the police take the footage at the event, or was it given to them later? By whom?
Citing Scripture as "fighting words," I would not usually consider it as such, but I don't know what was said. David, you are obviously better informed than I on Scripture, but it seems to me that it can be used to say many things. And not all Scriptural references are innocent preaching.
No problem. I'm glad it was available.
I really can't answer any of the questions you asked with any authority. I can say that because there are often times when people are arrested for their protests, it is not uncommon to "document" the event for just such an occasion. So, I'm sure it was recorded by the Christian group.
Most Christian groups that hold these kinds of protests (frankly, I've never been a part of one) are not motivated out of hate or anger or anything that many people assume. It is not simply a matter of not wanting "that" kind of person in our society. That's not it at all. By and large, most Christians are highly concerned for the souls of all people, including homosexuals. Especially when one reads the consequences laid out in Scripture for those who practice homosexuality in Romans 1. Now, if you place no importance on Scripture and disbelieve all it says, no big deal. But if you believe it to be true, as I do, it's very serious with serious consequences for the individual. If someone is walking out on a weak levee or something and you read a warning that the danger of the levee breaking under someone's weight is extreme, is it hate speech if you try and tell them? Certainly, this is only an analogy and can be broken down if one tries hard enough. I'm only trying to convey to you the motivation that most Christian have in telling others what God has said through the Bible. Again, if one disbelieves in God, there's a problem. However, an individual's disbelief has never affected reality.
I hope this helps in clearing up what I think has been the case. Again, I'm speculating to some degree because I wasn't there, but whereas I agree with you that people can take Scripture and manipulate it in many directions to say what they want it to say, I doubt this is the case. Scripture has many clear things to say about the practice of homosexuality without having to twist anything. Thanks for your inquiry and your continued thoughts.
I agree that protesters should be given leave to speak their message, but they cannot disrupt the event. I'm not saying that this occured in this case, at least it did not on the video footage linked above.
I don't remember if I have stated this before in my comments here, but I am an atheist. I realize that "spreading the word" is viewed by Christians as a charitable act, and I try to give Christians (and others) a polite refusal when it is directed at me. But some will not take no for an answer. As polite as the protesters at this event were, in the minds of the event participants, they may have been associated (even wrongly) with this: http://photos1.blogger.com/img/268/2845/640/Fags_Burn_In_Hell_5-27-2002.jpg
Obviously an extreme example.
However, given the facts I have so far (paltry as they are), this prosecution should not go forward. Many times, protesters at various events are rounded up just to prevent trouble from brewing. They are often released later without charges, or perhaps charged with misdemeanors. But felonies?
I am glad, in spite of our different religious perspective, you keep coming back here. Obviously, I do believe in God because, to me, it takes a greater amount of faith not to. Nevertheless, we are at least in agreement that those who promote the kind of stuff displayed in the photo you posted are reprehensible.
I, in no way, believe the people in that photo represent the attitude of God toward homosexuals. I do believe the Bible is clear that a homosexual lifestyle is unacceptable and God does not approve of it, but I don't believe God is hateful and unloving as those signs would lead one to believe. Nor do I have any patience with "Christians" (at least some who claim they are, though their actions are antithetical) who behave that way. To me, it is telling that these same people are flying the U.S. flag upside down (I know that is sometimes considered a symbol for distress, but somehow, I don't think that's what these folks had in mind). In my opinion, THAT is using Scripture as hate speech, as opposed to simply trying to help someone understand that they are in great danger by rejecting the message of their need for a savior and that their actions are incompatible with God's standards. One is motivated by love while the other, bigotted hatred.
We are also in agreement that even IF those in the Philadelphia case were of the caliber represented in the picture, they should still not be charged to the degree that they have been. All people have a right to peacefully demonstrate while not infringing upon/denying the rights of others. This should be the right of both of those groups. Otherwise, I suppose it could be argued that the Outfest was infringing on the rights of ordinary citizens on the street who didn't want to hear what those at the rally were promoting either. Either way, we're tanking the first ammendment. Thanks!
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